Response to Chris wrote on May 21, 2008 3:48 PM:
" One more thing regarding Christains believing homosexuality is a choice. What you need to realize is that most Christians are what you call "cultural Christians". I understand that you may not recognize these individuals as true Christians, but that's another argument for which I have no interest in debating. Also, your use of Catholic teachings as an example of what all Catholics believe is weak. The following must also holds true then 1)no Catholics use birth control 2) the Pope word is infailable 3) women should never be priests 4) never eat meat on Fridays during Lent. Do I need to go on. You Catholic argument is what is ignorant. I stand by my assertion. It is not ignorant, in fact it is probaly true. I do understand that among people you consider a Christain, it is probably not true. Come on Chris, you can do better than that. Present some arguments that stick. I'll give you credit. I promise. "
Response to Chris King wrote on May 21, 2008 3:28 PM:
" What I am referring to, and you know it, is that almost all homosexulas have reported feeling "different" very early on in life. Of course you turn that into being something "disgusting" and sexual. Where in my post do I mention a 6 or 7 year old knowing that they are gay? In fact, I questioned YOU how a 6 or 7 year old can make a concious choice. Your twisting my words Chris, everyone else can see that too. When you do that it shows your on shaky ground lacking any logical thought.
All you do is focus on the sex. I think about the right to have a loving relationship that you seem to think homosexuals shouldn't have.
I love my male friends; hugged them on occasion. Ive even probably kissed them in a time of jubilation. Does that make you nervous Chris? Not me. I have just always known that females are individuals who I choose to have an intimate realtionship with. I made that choice very early in life. Always knew it. Nobody told me to be that way. I just feel I should give homosexuals that same right.
So basically Chris, you stll refuse to answer my question specifically. You just twist my words and then give me rhetoric on Darwinism. It's a lot easier to do that than face the simple questions I have posed; isn't it? Keep posting Chris. Your making me look better and better.
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"
Chris King wrote on May 21, 2008 1:41 PM:
" My last point on this letter..."Most Christians know that God made some people homosexual." Now, THAT is insane.
I don't know what "christian" circles you run in, but most Christians understand that God does not contradict Himself. Therefore, true Christians, not cultural "christians," know that God would not tell us that homosexuality is an abomination, then turn around and make some people gay!
Your statement about "...most christians..." is one of the most ignorant statements I have ever heard! In fact, most Christians are Catholic, and we are all well aware of the Catholic church's teachings regarding homosexuality. (I am not Catholic, but the facts simply dispute your assertion!) "
Chris King wrote on May 21, 2008 1:34 PM:
" The fact that you feel any 6 or 7 year old is ready to make any decision regarding sexual conduct is astounding. I'm not diagnosing anything, but do you really think any child at the age of 6 or 7 should even be thinking about sex of any sort? Furthermore, IF the child does seem to feel any confusion regarding sexual orientation, how do they know to label those feelings as homosexual? No child knows about homosexuality unless the adults or older children around them tell them about it, or they hear about it at school thanks to "diversity" training. They may feel some kind of inner-conflict, but it is unlikely that it has anything to do with sexual orientation at that age.
It's actually rather disgusting that you think a 6 or 7 year old child can think they are gay. If they do, it is because those around them have convinced them so! Furthermore, if a child of that age is experiencing anything pertaining to sex or romantic love you had better take a look at who is around that child, because it is a good chance there is someone older around that child that is exposing the child to things they have no business being exposed to!
"They knew they were gay at 6 or 7..." Come on man, that's just wrong, and if you took the time to truly examine your argument you would realize how truly disturbing your attempt to prove nature as an excuse for homosexuality really is!
In addition, since you believe homosexuality is natural, then you must recognize that according to Darwin's theories, homosexuals are a weaker species and nature will thereby eliminate them. Homosexuals cannot pro-create, and they will never have that ability. Therefore, there species will expire, unless they can convince others that they are gay also. Furthermore, if your counter to that argument is that they are not a separate "species," but homosexuality occurs naturally, then you must recognize that it is a mutation of the typical human genome. So, according to you and your unprovable hypothesis, homosexuals will either die out because they are the weaker species or they are mutants! "
Response to Chris King wrote on May 19, 2008 8:29 PM:
" What you fail to do is answer the specific questions that I brought up in my previous post. Do you know any homosexuals? Have you ever talked to one? You seem to think it is a choice they make. Again, God made some individuals homosexual. The vast majority of people know this. Most Christians believe this too. The fact that you feel homosexuals make a concious choice at 6 or 7 years of age only reinforces you inhibility to think logically on this matter. Why do they make this choice at such a young age? Do you really think they understand this compulsive behavior. Are you diagnosing compulsions at this age. Perhaps you went into the wrong field, if you have such talent for this. It is not my intention to change your views, only demonstrate you flawed logic to the rest of the blog. If you do choose to respond please respond specifically to my questions in this post and my previous post. Try to limit the rhetoric. "
Chris King wrote on May 19, 2008 1:24 PM:
" "It amazes me that you and others some feel that homosexuals would choose to go through pain, depression, an ridicule they live through by choice."
No, instead of recognizing that there is validity to people's concern that homosexuality is dangerous, instead of recognizing the internal nagging by their conscience that something in not right, instead of recognizing that there is something not right within their compulsion toward members of the same sex, instead of acknowledging that everyone is a sinner and believing that faith in Jesus can end their deviant desires they chose to believe that they are o.k. They fail to recognize that same-sex attraction serves no useful purpose (other than immediate gratification, much like a drug addict in need of their fix), whether you view it from a religious, secular, governmental, or natural point of view!
The problem with this whole issue is that while I completely disagree with the homosexual lifestyle, it is none of my business, as long as they keep it amongst themselve. However, when they attempt to cast moral, upstanding, God-fearing people as bigots for disagreeing with their chosen lifestyle, when they attempt to redefine an institution that is THE cornerstone of society, when their own internal conflict rears it's ugly head within our Nation's courts, they have crossed the line!
Jesus can and will forgive them if they repent and place their faith in Him. Although, the damage done to society if "gay marriage" were to sustain throughout the Nation would destroy the God-breathed institution of marriage, and our children will lose their right to disagree with a lifestyle that is simply unhealthy, damaging, disgraceful, evil, and serves no legitimate purpose! "
ReHogwash wrote on May 17, 2008 4:37 PM:
" How fortunate for you that God made you heterosexual. It's easy to be judgemental when you were not born homosexual. The analogy to drinking and drugs doesn't hold water as it is universally accepted, even by the abusers, that drug use and alchohol abuse is wrong. Being loved by another is not. You just feel that homosexuals shouldn't have the right to be loved by another just as God allows you to be loved by another. Why would God do this? Are you opposed to two individuals of the same sex loving each other? The sexual act? What constitutes inappropraite behavior? Hugging? holding hands? kissing? I'm staight but hugged my male friends. Is that wrong? You admit that God makes some individuals homosexual, but in you eyes are not allowed to have the long term initiamate relationship that God has blessed you with. Lucky for you I guess. It just doesn't make sense. If God was truly so opposed to homosexuality why would he create individuals who could not experience the same love for another that you or I can? Is this a dirty trick by God? Don't keep giving the excuse that God creates us all as sinners. Being a homosexual is a bigger strike (sin) put on some individuals that I'm sur you and I could never deal with. It amazes me that you and others some feel that homosexuals would choose to go through pain, depression, an ridicule they live through by choice. You don't ever consider that you just have a one mind based on a few passages in the Bible. Again, congrats on your fortunate lot in life. Let's hope your children and grandchildren have the same luck. "
Hogwash wrote on May 17, 2008 7:48 AM:
" God says homosexuality is wrong, and regardless of whether an individual may be inclined toward gay behavior, they must resist those inclinations.
The fact is that the Bible tells us that humans are born into this world and it's sinful nature. Many humans naturally are inclined to drink or use drugs. Does that mean because they are inclined to do such things, they should?
Nature or nurture doesn't matter. It is wrong in the eyes of God! Therefore, it is, or should be, wrong in the eyes of EVERY Christian!
WHAT A LOAD OF CRAPOLA.ITS A BOOK YOU CLIM TO BE GODS WORD JUST LIKE MOSLEMS CLAIM THE QURAN IS>DUH
"
reChris King wrote on May 17, 2008 7:32 AM:
" Ya and one would be based on legitimate science and the other on a quote from a 2,000 year old book.You and your ilk make as much sense to me as the taliban.They justify allsorts of atrocities in the name of their god and their holy book as well. "
Chris King wrote on May 16, 2008 4:01 PM:
" There are numerous sources that fall on both sides of the nature vs nurture issue. The fact is that nurture evidence is reported primarily by Christian institutes or affiliations, while nature evidence is touted by secular scientists and institutions.
Which is more accurate? Well, Christians are going to be inclined to believe the Christian institutions, while secular individuals will be inclined to to believe secular sources.
Another fact is that the homosexual issue is so polarizing that there is an astounding likelihood that reports from either side are full of bias. We could go round and round, and the argument would never be settled. However, God says homosexuality is wrong, and regardless of whether an individual may be inclined toward gay behavior, they must resist those inclinations.
The fact is that the Bible tells us that humans are born into this world and it's sinful nature. Many humans naturally are inclined to drink or use drugs. Does that mean because they are inclined to do such things, they should?
Nature or nurture doesn't matter. It is wrong in the eyes of God! Therefore, it is, or should be, wrong in the eyes of EVERY Christian!
Furthermore, seriously examine why the STATE chose to endorse and promote what began as a CHURCH institution. When you see the reasons, you will be faced with the FACT that "gay marriage" simply would redefine the inherent definition of marriage, thereby destroying the solid cornerstone of all societies. The idea of "gay marriage" also fails to accommodate the reasons that the State endorses, enforces, and promotes marriage in the first place! "
Learned Behavior wrote on May 16, 2008 11:31 AM:
" Why are you so sure that homosexuality is a learned behavior? When does a young child learn this behavior when they have no family members or friends to learn it from? Have you ever talked to homosexuals to see if they really learned it or always felt that way? Homosexual adults remember feeling different when they were six or seven. Did they learn homosexuality before that? You will discount all of this I'm sure, because accepting that homosexuality is not learned would mean that God made some individuals homosexual. It is simply ignorant to thnk that young children somehow learn this behavior. If you try to cite any resources refuting this, please refrain from conservative christian resources spouting their rhetoric. Stick to real scientific studies. "
Chris King wrote on May 16, 2008 10:59 AM:
" You mean true, Biblical Christianity is polarizing to individuals that place themselves and their base compulsions above God's will. True Christians understand that God has told us we are all sinners. True Christians understand that God has multiple attributes. True Christians know that God is a loving and graceful Father. However, true Christians also understand that failure to repent and place your faith in Jesus Christ will lead to a very real Hell.
I have never said anything about hating anyone! On a personal or 1:1 basis I am typically loving and supportive, and I would explain to the individual God can forgive them, if they turn away from their sinful lifestyle. It's what Biblical Christianity understands to be repentance, and along with faith in Jesus Christ it is the key to salvation. However, as a matter of public stance, you cannot condone immoral or unethical behavior in any form!
It is more loving to point out the personal sins of the individual and explain that there is no tolerance for placing your own impulses above God's will, because it is the failure of cultural christians to preach repentance that has encouraged sinful lifestyles!
You say that it is hateful to disagree that human immorality should not be condoned by the State, but I think it is dishonest of you to tell someone that it is ok that they have disregarded God's will for their lives. If you claim to be a Christian, but fail to stand against the things God hates you are missing the mark.
It is more loving to disregard your own discomfort about telling people they are behaving contrary to God's will, then it is for me to sit idly by while our society, quite literally, goes to Hell in a hand basket! Yes, it would be much easier to be a smiley, happy Christian and tell people that they can live according to their own will, be their own gods, and disregard God's true will without consequence, but that would be taking the easy way out, and it would be a lie. It would definitely not be the "Christian thing to do" to fail to inform people that repentance and faith in Jesus Christ is the parachute that can save them from an eternity in Hell! Therefore, in spite of the ire of un-repentant sinners and cultural christians I will continue to rail against government endorsement of indecent, immoral, and deviant behavior! "
reChris wrote on May 16, 2008 7:59 AM:
" Try it you will like it. "
Chris King wrote on May 16, 2008 6:49 AM:
" So, your predicting the end of Biblical Christianity... "
Re Chris King falsehood wrote on May 16, 2008 6:32 AM:
" Homosexuality is a LEARNED "trait.You do not have one scintilla of evdience that this is FACT.You are the classic right wing supposed christian hater. "
re Chris King wrote on May 16, 2008 5:21 AM:
" Stop talking! You are making us forgiving and loving Christians look bad. "
only a matter of time wrote on May 15, 2008 5:20 PM:
" Only a matter of time that the right wing get thrown out on their rear and racism and elietism gets thrown out also. They are one in the same from this stand point. Maybe you want us to stay in the good old days chris but you and your kind will be passed bye with people that have an open mind on ALL HUMANS on this planet not just the ones that pray to your god. "
Chris King wrote on May 15, 2008 2:56 PM:
" You know, I almost continued this tired argument... Then I recognized that it is futile because many people simply fail to recognize how twisted the idea of same-sex marriage really is!
The fact is that this argument is a waste time because the voters of Wisconsin have already spoken on the issue, and our State Constitution now protects traditional marriage as a union between one man and one woman. Furthermore, our legislators had enough foresight to ensure that no ignorant individuals will be able to achieve their goal of state endorsement of deviance through any institution for homosexuals that attempts to mirror traditional marriage!
The battle in this state has already been fought, and the people on the side of ignorance and deviance lost! "
Wow Chris wrote on May 15, 2008 11:47 AM:
" Look at what people were saying in the 50's and 60's and it would be word for word. Black people can marry legally but not with white people. How can a mixed race couple raise children and not confuse them. All it is is racism. Your accusation of a learned trait begs the argument of the chicken and the egg. So the first Homosexual was what confused since no one whas there to teach them that they were not normal. Did they just decide to start a new movement?? And by the way most minorities who have fought for equal rights don't differentiate between what rights are good to save and what rights are bad. They try to protect anyone that is persecuted by the likes of you and the right wing of the govt. because of their sexual orientation or color of their skin. Before you throw your opinion and put words in the mouths of millions of people that have fought for equal rights you should know what your talking about. "
Chris King wrote on May 14, 2008 4:41 PM:
" Huge difference...race is a born trait, nothing inherently wrong with anyone's race. However, homosexuals adhere to a lifestyle that has been proven to be unhealthy and harmful to society! Homosexuality is a LEARNED "trait," and it can and should be encouraged to be changed.
Furthermore, homosexuals are legally allowed to marry, as long as they marry someone of the opposite sex. There is no law stating that gays can not marry, just that they can't marry each other! (It simply doesn't meet the inherently understood definition of marriage!)
In addition, I would bet most minorities that fought for equal rights would be disgusted by the idea of homosexuals hijacking their movement for equality. Race is race, homosexuality is wrong, and the attempt to convince society that it is perfectly natural is an affront to common sense. There is valid reasons that the government sanctions marriage. Primarily because it is the cornerstone of society. It perpetuates the human race, and it is the best environment to raise children in! Homosexuals and their most deviant form of "love" simply are not capable of providing the benefits to society that government expects of a marriage between one man and one woman.
For goodness sakes, whoever wrote this editorial is really grasping at straws here! "
right wing nuts wrote on May 13, 2008 11:42 PM:
" Of course conservatives see the decisions by the Warren court as all wrong. They want decisions based on the current law and not have activist judges change law. Well if we go by the Republican conservatives these two would have been in jail for their marriage today. These so called conservatives are making the same point with same sex marriage. Its common sense vs. enforcing the law. Some laws are very racist and unconstitutional and the Warren court did a brilliant job on overturning these racist states and laws. Hopefully when the Dem. rep become president this year he or she can appoint more liberal judges to rule with common sense and not racist laws. "
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